Many others have already shown that this bill has less to do with crime prevention than it has to do with creating criminals out of women who exercise their choice.
There are those who would like to see these kinds of stories become commonplace in Canada:
Mother-of-two Alicja Tysiac was refused an abortion in Poland’s public health system in 2000 despite three doctors’ opinions that she risked loss of her eyesight as a result of the pregnancy.
Bojorge was awaiting her second child when she and her 5-month-old fetus died this month in a public hospital in Managua. Bojorge’s family says they took her to a hospital when she complained of limb pains and weakness. When her condition worsened, doctors say they determined her fetus was dead, but Bojorge went into shock before they could save her.
and
Ana Isela Vega, who was three months pregnant when she suffered a miscarriage this month, was refused the necessary procedure to evacuate her uterus in a public hospital in the city of León, said Marta María Blandón, Central America director of Ipas. According to Blandón, the doctors worried they could not operate for legal reasons. Under pressure from women’s groups who explained that the law did not forbid removing an already-deceased fetus, the doctors finally operated.
There are few dystopias more frightening than one in which a woman is held captive to the product of her uterus. Women continue to die in countries where doctors are afraid to even provide life saving surgery for such things as ectopic pregnancy because of the threat of prison.
Don’t let this happen here. Phone, fax, write or email your MP and send this letter to Liberal leader Dion.
[email_link]
Thank you Sagan. I know we have difference of opinion obviously, but that “cavalry” you asked me to call in just came. Someone who is reasonable and moderate and at least smart enough to have an intelligent debate. I know me and Sagan may disagree obviously, but her idea, which is also my philosophy, is your going to convince more people if you use inteligent, logical debate and don’t insult people. i know it’s probably the last thing sagan wants to hear too, compliments from your “enemy”, but I’m probably the youngest person here, and I have used the least amount of childish attacks!
And yes, talking about my “camp brainwashing” was embarassing for you. you made a hasty judgment and generalized. And that’s that all people who are against abortion or at least partial are “church camp” goers. You obviously don’t know that some of the most prominent figures against abortion 9or controlled) are educated and not religious. You can be against abortion and not religious! that’s jsut the simplistic flawed one track mind logic your using. let’s look at say France… One of the most historically and currently secualr countries in the world. and yet even they have some sort of laws (3 month)
I’m not here to take away people’s ‘rights”, but one of the expiriences of being in highschool is tragically having to see uncontrollable teens. I understand that most of the people here are older, and the case of the “raped” or “incest” is often brought up. or even the mother who is danger, but i’m not arguing against them. I’m talking about what I see. And what I see is many young teens, guys and girls, having sex randomely. And I may not agree, but I can’t judge those people and stop them. but what I can judge is what I percieve as a violation of others rights. there have been tonnes of abortions at my school by girls aging 13-18! not one or two, but in the double digits. And this is a top school in Ontario!! the top in fact at a small school (around 700)
but thats irrelevant. the point if with all the education we have and resources at our graps (birth controle ect.). Why are people getting pregnant? i don’t know at what stage these people are having abortions (likely before 3 months) but still. It becomes my problem when we have teenagers killing what I percieve are babies.
THe problem that has mounted is not that married men and women or older are having abortions occasionally. the largest portion are actually teenage girls (and obviously with the help of boys) who can’t control themselves. One example is of a girl whos name i will say starts with S, and has had 2 abortion and slept with 3 guys in one night. This isn’t about responsible people maybe like you making a tough descision. These are.. promiscious…. women who are using abortion as almost a semi birth control!
I like to discuss this because I use my opinion to convince people just as I have been convinced. I used to be 100% against abortion, but then changed to the more moderate version.
i just have one question that I would just like to know your people stance. What about that scenerio with the women who is 8 months pregant standing beside the baby in the support machine who was born premature and is only 5 months, which is the baby? Since it was “born”, is the 5 month a baby and the more developed, more “human” fetus that is 8 months not a baby? please someone answer this, i just personally don’t understand how one can count one as a “baby” and the other not? I’m not beign sarcastic, I jsut want to know toher peoples opinions
Kris,
I’ll take compliments from anyone. Do you assume I am a woman because I am pro-choice? Men can also be pro-choice.
And that’s good then that you’ll take the comment. its just weird when theres one persona mature enough here to have a debate (whether this site is intended for that or not) without name calling or making hasty generalizations. its also kinda weird cause I’m singling you out for that compliment when I’m surrounded by a pack of people who hate me because I disagree and aren’t willing to give an inch. I think technically I’d be categorized under pro-choice, and yet I get furiously attacked for questioning someone’s belief.
I’m not trying to be a smart***, but I think it would be safe to say none of you have taken philosophy, or at least taken it seriously enough to apply it. most of you are just as bad as the stereotypical staunch ‘conservatives” you claim to be fighting against. You have one opinion. one mindset. And yours is right.
I’m open to everyone heres arguments as long as its supported by something. Except all I’ve received are childish and weak attacks such as “brainwashed bible camp” and “stay away from my body”, “fetus fetishers” and the denying of facts. No offense but I get more intelligent conversation in my class with the other gr. 12′s.
And I guess sit was an assumption to presume you were automatically a women, even though you are.
But can someone please answer my question? its a real chance to explain and redeem yourselves. its my belief that we all think deep down its a baby, its just we say it isn’t to make it easier.
Don’t take this personally, I’m not comparing you guys to the Nazi, i swear, but it is somethings the Nazi’s did. They dehumanized the jews because it made them easier to kill that way. To make the mental realization that the Jews were people and human would of been too hard. So they did that
Kris, your intellectual dishonesty is priceless!
And, how dare you tell me what I can and cannot do with my body. You are not god or goddess (or God or Goddess for that matter). You have absolutely no right — no right whatsoever — to tell me what I can and cannot do.
Please stop doing so now!
Kris – AGAIN.
Nobody invited you for a debate. You showed up here demanding one. There is nothing to debate. Abortion must remain legal and safe for all women, and when you start making laws then you put the decision in someone else’s hands.
Who gets to decide, the government? Someone’s church? A judge or court? What gives any of them the authority to tell me, or a highschool girl, or a married woman, or a prostitute, or a rape victim that the decision to end a pregnancy is theirs to make, instead of mine/ours? None. Nobody on the outside of a situation can possibly have the moral or legal authority to make that decision. Just because YOU personally “perceive” a zygote or fetus to be a baby and that ending it’s undeveloped life is murder, that doesn’t make it YOUR decision to make for someone else. Do you really trust the government to decide?
That girl you mention, the one who allegedly had sex with 3 guys in one night and has had abortions (or so you have heard, are you really sure about that?). Is it really up to you to decide whether or not she should have a baby? No. Is it your place to judge her sexual activity? No. It’s her body. You have NO IDEA what her situation or motivations are. It’s none of your business.
You keep decrying us for not answering the hypothetical situation about the premature 5 month old born fetus, and the 9 month one not born yet. That is a straw man, and I for one refuse to answer it. We may as well argue how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
The insinuation that women are casually aborting late term babies is insulting and misinformed. You have never responded to my comment about my friend, who had a late term abortion to prevent her (much wanted) baby from experiencing tremendous pain, and to save her own life. Do you think there should be laws banning the procedure (late term abortion)? Because my friend might be dead, and her baby would be as well but only after much suffering. How is that “pro-life”? Would you make a law giving a judge the power to make that very private, agonizing decision? Because if the judge said no, again, my friend might be dead and her other children would grow up with no mother. Oh, and the baby would still be dead, again, after much suffering.
Do you really think that the mythical “woman who up and decides to have an abortion at 8.5 months” should be a mother? Do you think that girls at your school who have sex and get pregnant should be forced to be mothers, or forced to give birth and then give up their babies? How in the hell do you actually think any of it is your business, or your decision to make?
And regarding that 5 month gestation prematurely born baby. Can it survive on its own, without tubes, wires, ventilators, surgeries, and other assorted millions of dollars of medical intervention? Because following the line of reasoning that abortion is playing God or taking a life that should be, all of that medical intervention which is necessary to keep that baby alive is also playing God, artificially sustaining a life that clearly was not to have survived. What is the difference? You tell me. You’re the one who keeps touting your intelligence and maturity.
kris your account has been banned I’m not sure how you are still getting in.
I am not interested in listening to anymore of your nonsense take it elsewhere.
Yesterday I attended a meeting organized at the University of Ottawa of people who oppose Bill C484. I asked one of the leaders afterwards what — if not Bill C484 — can give justice if someone were to attack my wife, killing the child that is now in her womb? The woman could not admit — would not admit — that the child even existed. Our child, now only a month old, has a beating heart, and is safely within my wife’s womb. We love that child. It is alive. It is fully human like any of us. Anyone who is blind to that is not only pitiful, but dangerous.
@Cecil -
Congratulations!
Now can you tell me why you support a law that really changes nothing to make your wife safer but does take away another women’s right to make a different choice?
Another bill has been proposed that does offer protection without that underhanded making abortion a criminal act aspect. Do you support that bill?
And please don’t glurge me to death with itty bitty baby routines, I’ve had six kids I know all about it.
I would not find this bill a threat to a womans rights if it clearly stated that it would only be enforced in cases that the woman/victim was wanting to press charges.
Beating your wife is against the law but if she refuses to press charges then the man walks away unscathed. If they will ammend the bill to ensure that it really is the womans choice to prosecute not the states/fathers etc… then I have no problem with it.
Until then I will continue to see it as a potential threat to a womans right to choose.
Uh, Michele, I don’t know where you live, but where I live, it is not up to the woman to press charges. In cases of domestic, the police are obliged by law to proceed with charges.
But, hey, a nice try on your part. Too bad facts mean nothing to you.
@the regina mom –
And too bad I can’t type! That should read “In cases of domestic violence, the police are obliged…”